Shooting Raw

Sophia

I have just started shooting raw with my D3100, but when I download them in Lightroom 5 they seem to be grainy. Is that normal? Thanks!
Sophia

bruto

Disclaimer: I don't have Lighroom, I only read about it, and hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

A Raw file is not really viewable as such. When you view it in a program, some process is used to convert it into a viewable form. The usual means is to convert it to JPG using the camera's settings. Nikon NEF files include a JPG "sidecar" file which contains the settings and defaults, but it's optional whether a program uses this, or all of it, or makes its own.

As I understand it, Adobe's "Camera Raw" does not apply much, if any, noise reduction. What you see in a JPG has had it applied automatically, and if you use the Nikon View NX2 or Capture NX-D programs, they also do this by default, as do other programs that will display a NEF file but are really showing you the JPG overlay. On the Nikon programs, though you can manipulate certain Raw settings, the view you start with is the JPG that you would get from the camera's settings, including the non-variable in-camera noise reduction. Although you can change some things, you can't eliminate the noise reduction with those programs (although Capture NXD can add more).

As far as I know, you just have to add the noise reduction in Lightroom to your taste or needs. I think you can set default values that are keyed to the ISO, and then tweak them individually as needed.

relliot499

What is the ISO you're shooting your photos at? I shoot raw all the time and used Lightroom 5 with my D5100, and now Lightroom 6 with my D5500, and the only time my photos are grainy is when my ISO is high.

PBked

HI @RELLIOT499,
RAW files do not have image manipulation applied in camera as do JPG files. At low ISO (typically 100) there is little noise in RAW files, but as ISO increases so does the noise. The best way to see the effect is to shoot a series of photos with increasing ISO with the camera set to shoot RAW+JPG. I am a Canon user, but I assume the Nikon has this feature.
When you view your photos side by side you will notice very little difference at low ISO, but as you go up the scale, you will notice a big difference in noise levels with the JPGs being processed in camera.
This brings up the age old argument ie. RAW v. JPG.
If you are a person who likes to tweak, RAW offers you control over all the data in a program like Lightroom whereas, after in-camera processing, a JPG has a more limited amount of data to work on.
So, to answer Sophia's original question - yes it is normal to see a lot of noise in RAW files shot at high ISO and in some cameras this noise can start at around 800 upwards. On my Canon, I rarely shoot above ISO 1600, which offers the amount of noise I am prepared to live with.
PBked

bruto

@Pbked, yes the Nikon does allow simultaneous Raw and JPG shots. What effect this will have depends on what program you open the Raw files in, though. The Nikon supplied programs generally apply the noise reduction to the JPG overlay you see when you open a Raw file, so the two will look much the same. View NX2 does not even include a noise reduction application. Capture NXD (provided free from the Nikon web site) does, with a fairly extensive set of options.

Most of the time, a JPG file will look good enough as is, and even if you shoot Raw you might simply take what the JPG overlay looks like anyway. However, if you do manipulate, JPG has the disadvantage that each time you save, it compresses the file again, and loss can be cumulative. I think the biggest advantage to Raw even if you don't tweak much is in cropping. If you intend to crop, it's a good idea to shoot Raw and apply the final JPG compression only on the cropped result, for better clarity.

PBked

Hi @BRUTO,
What you describe is the way I mostly work. I shoot RAW and use the standard style. Canon's DPP software has a nifty cropping and tilt control which works by degrees (one does not always get one's horizons straight). It also has lens correction data which is useful as my most used lens is a 15-85mm. Sometimes, I will pick landscape over the standard style. Then when all is done, I convert and save to JPG.
I don't know about you, but I never save my RAW files separately. I used to, but found that once I had made my tweaks I never returned to the RAWs and they take up a lot of space.
I'm not sure how Canon's Zoombrowser works, but you can view RAW and JPG side by side and see the differences.
Regards,
PBked

relliot499

@Pbked,
I know raw files don't have image manipulation applied to them, but if you enlarge them in the software you can see the grain or lack of detail that you get at a high ISO. My point was that if @SOPHIA is seeing grain, maybe she's shooting at a high ISO. That was why I asked what ISO she was shooting at.